OOC whining

[Ves]

Ok, this is beginning to get on my damned nerves now, so this post is a simple one to settle this once and for all.

Alfred / Luke, what the hell is your problem?

Not only do you slag off all the members of the Cirque (which I'd like to point out at least 2 FA members are also a part of) but when you don't get an instant responce to your oh so mature (( Ow ow ow ow ow )) SG chat message you begin complaining that the 2 SG members in-game at the time are ignoring you.

Did you even check the members locations on the SG roster? Clearly not as that would have displayed their current location as "On mission map" and at the level of mission involved stopping to reply to messages like that are far from top priority.

So do you ask what the reason for the silence was? Nope, you start moaning on MSN, accusing people of having an OOC vendetta against you.

Sensible messages might be advisable if you want a quick reply, though after all these OOC comments of yours, it might be a very long time before you get a reply at all from some of the people you keep slagging off

[Luke]

I) Message - Having been waiting about five minutes - and previously told that OOC-Meadow would no longer speak to me OOC because:

You dont understand

- I did somewhat assume from evidence at hand that this was the case. Having seen previous hallmarks, this also leads in to point III.

II) Cirque - have god-moded towards me multiple and have hissy fits whenever you OOC challenge the characters' god-like powers. In addition, many seem to be unable to distinguish between how they believe someone else's character should act and how they actually do (Example: OOC whining that Alfred wasn't bowing down and nutsting himself when some random Cirque guy turns up and starts making threats). There's a difference between being an IC clique and OOC creation of 'blacklists' based upon IC actions and rather fuzzy thinking.

III) 'Vendetta' - I think it's due to the IC thing with Alfred and Meadow/Meph, personally. 'Annoyed that someone dare mess up the stupid and nonsensical Twu Wuv', it seems...

Hence, Meadow-OOC is directing all of his/her characters to suddenly be anti-Alfred. Including ones completely unconnected to the entire thing, or even former allies (Mindwaves, for example). They all now seem to have the goal of ruining IC-Alfred's life. It would also seem, for reasons unknown, that you, Ves, are fully in favour of this, though luckily your characters are not direct participants or all the same person.

Examples include: Lying to Kit, loudly talking about how horrid Alfred is to everyone uninvited, butting in constantly on conversations, and other such silliness of a similar nature. Even if the characters were independent of each other instead of just being a singular voice and acting the same whoever they are*, then this would still be rather irritating.

It just seems that since the oh-so-shallow 'INSTANT TWU WUV' was pointed out OOC through IC actions, and that I did not similarly play out-of-character and have a highly protective and good man simply go "Aww, she's got Stockholm Syndrome or been brainwashed" towards a character who has, unrealistically, instantly, and devotedly fallen in love with a publically admitted evil being. I'm sure that this was the expected reaction, but it was clearly not the sensible, realistic, or in-character one.

And at this, of course, it then seems that, for having pointed out the sheer unrealism of such a 'plot'** - or at least of the expected reaction and reverse god-mode in order to wriggle out of actually - <gasp> - having to react to IC situations appropriately. What it would appear we have here is an apparent mix-up between IC and OOC that has led to OOC hostility for IC actions. I'd rather that it hadn't come to this point, but it apparently has.

Now. I'd like to sort the entire thing out, but since I am no longer being spoken to OOC by half of the problem, this would appear to be somewhat difficult. We'll see what happens.


*Seems to be few, if any, personality differences between said characters, and they all seem to work from the same semi-IC mush of irritation.

**Seriously. There's Neopets and Gaia Online for this sort of thing.

[Meadow]

Luke.. you write too much.. i started reading.. i got bored but kept on.. but im guessing that you are just repeating yourself.

And yes i said that you dont understand and that i didnt, i repeat, didnt want to be OOC discussing with you. I actually said so several times, but apparently you like twisting my words. All my characters being against you. I think you must be paranoid. You know, there is such thing as professional help. V and Meadow are bonded together, and V doesnt really like anyone. Meadow clearly has her own reasons. Sin'Dari generally doesnt like anyone..... thats about it.. mind you, i have 12 characters at Union, and as far as i recall atleast 11 of them are RP's. And no i havent been playing Mindwaves much, i didnt like the build and was thinking about deleting her, but right now im focusing on Meadow. I have had it with your personal attacks, it seems like you are the one having an OOC Grudge. And please stop talking about me behind my back, this isnt High school.

If there are other questions unanswered, i would have missed those.

[Ves]

Having been waiting about five minutes

Have you ever done a timed lvl 47 mission set on the maximum difficulty? If you had you'd know that replying to dumb ass OOC messages are something that gets put right at the bottom of the To-Do list.

We were too busy to talk to you, and you took that personally, *shrugs* your problem not ours

have god-moded towards me multiple and have hissy fits whenever you OOC challenge the characters' god-like powers

Name 3 Cirque PLAYERS that have god-modded towards you. I personally doubt very much that you can. And yet you still proceed to label ALL it's members as God-modders.

As for god-like powers, ever heard the phrase "Pot calling the kettle black"? You claim Alfred is at least as powerful as Sister Psyche, yeah ok, and Ves kicks Statesman's ass and steals his lunch money.

There's a difference between being an IC clique and OOC creation of 'blacklists' based upon IC actions and rather fuzzy thinking.

Any blacklist you're on (and yes, there are a few) are caused by your own OOC actions, no-one elses, publicly slagging off other players as soon as they get out of local chat range, and then their entire SG, not the smartest of moves considering many of the players at GG are friendly with the members. Hell you even managed to annoy the one person that I thought would never get mad at anyone. Good move

They all now seem to have the goal of ruining IC-Alfred's life. It would also seem, for reasons unknown, that you, Ves, are fully in favour of this, though luckily your characters are not direct participants or all the same person.

Okay, first up I'd like to commend you on your amazing ability to slate everyone elses RP style, guess this comes from being one of the "Elite RPers from WoW", no wonder they all turned on you in the end.

Reasons unknown? Seriously, you have no idea why I'm involved? For such a well educated child you have a very poor memory. Think back to the OOC accusations and name calling from the Meph - Alfred incedent, you flagged ME as a god-modder for not letting you god-mod. Then add to that the way you so happily insult my in-game friends (both IC and OOC). And to top it all off, mix in a large portion of the way since you've joined the FA there has been almost constant turmoil, all of it caused by you and your eagerness to point out the flaws in everyone else while ignoring your own. For some reason you seem to believe you're better than the rest of us. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you ain't.

As one of the original members of the FA I've seen it grow from a small band of angst fueled guys and gals (most of whom were new to RP) into something great, all the members have matured both in RP style and ability. I will not watch one person come along and ruin what we built.

I did not similarly play out-of-character and have a highly protective and good man simply go "Aww, she's got Stockholm Syndrome or been brainwashed" towards a character who has, unrealistically, instantly, and devotedly fallen in love with a publically admitted evil being.

Umm... Yes you did, the first time you saw Meph and Meadow together in the base you started on your little "Lets break them up" scheme, without even knowing a thing about their relationship at that time. Don't come back with the old "I'm a telepath, I could tell what they were thinking" because you don't know a thing without asking the person OOC which you didn't. You decided to screw over 2 players for some warped reason, and now you complain when it all comes back and bites you in the ass.


As far as I can see there are 3 options

1: Stop all the OOC slagging off and meddling with other players toons unless they allow it and accept it. Then try and get back to getting along.

2: Find yourself unable to be a part of what the FA has become, no matter how hard you try to change it, and leave.

3: continue slagging everyone off, wind me up even more than you have already until I eventually just walk away, then you have one less person to go against your ideals.

The last point isn't for your benefit Luke, it's for the other members of the FA who actually care about the group as a whole. That is what will happen if this crap carries on, and it won't be an IC departure like it was with the Quiver events (and to a lesser degree the last time with the whole Meph - Alfred mess). It'll be for good, and since Alexiel might not be coming back, there'll be no reason for me to bother showing my face at all.

[Luke]

Name 3 Cirque PLAYERS that have god-modded towards you.

Usually? RM. Also possible - if not RM- for the large blue chap who sent OOC /tells informing me that I was being OOC if Alfred wasn't wetting himself because of threats from the particular Cirque chap and the Cirque as a whole. And though it is less recent - and likely over by this point - Fridan (and yes, I'm aware Akk is Fridan) was flinging (and succeeding) in flinging various celestial objects and claiming to be utterly unassailable. The hissy fit(s) came from the blue chap and - once - RM during a Kit-groping incident. It was after the Cirque threatened to murder Alfred in his sleep that I stopped bothering to interact with them on any level except throwing a greeting over, so further examples were stopped at the source...

You claim Alfred is at least as powerful as Sister Psyche, yeah ok, and Ves kicks Statesman's ass and steals his lunch money.

likely rivals Sister Psyche (though not bests, presumably)

Emphasis added here now. Not as good as, though 'could give a run for her money', I imagine. But in all likelihood, get squished.

Any blacklist you're on (and yes, there are a few) are caused by your own OOC actions, no-one elses, publicly slagging off other players as soon as they get out of local chat range, and then their entire SG, not the smartest of moves considering many of the players at GG are friendly with the members. Hell you even managed to annoy the one person that I thought would never get mad at anyone. Good move

I don't particularly mind if people are aware of my opinions, and in fact I would appreciate it if they became so. Yet things would run far better if people, as opposed to forming idiotic little cliques and denying things, would at least openly discuss problems and attempt to find a conclusion. I attempted this beforehand - with Meadow-OOC - and of course the attempt was rejected out of hand. So it doesn't exactly leave many avenues, does it? (Also curious to know the identity of the latter figure, personally...)

Think back to the OOC accusations and name calling from the Meph - Alfred incedent, you flagged ME as a god-modder for not letting you god-mod. Then add to that the way you so happily insult my in-game friends (both IC and OOC).

1. An argument, it seems, where one is as bad as the other... probably a circular one, in the manner of Irresistible Force vs Immovable Object. 'Attempts' being an operative in this case. It would be considered unreasonable for Alfred to happily ignore or walk away from being stabbed, poisoned, slashed, bitten, or beaten with a sledehammer, and therefore such a reaction wouldn't happen. The same situation somewhat applies to a 'brushing off with a laugh' of telepathic abilities, as well.
2. IC ought to have no bearing on OOC. And as for OOC - an insult is only an insult if it is taken in that way. Calling someone a 'thief' isn't generally an insult, and neither is calling someone - and accurately, in my opinion - a god-mode type. It's an accusation. In addition, there is perhaps an element of the aforementioned pot and kettle, considering your admitted existence of blacklists and such that do serve as insults.

the first time you saw Meph and Meadow together in the base you started on your little "Lets break them up" scheme, without even knowing a thing about their relationship at that time

Alfred is aware that Meph and Meadow had just met a day or two before - having been told so - and then doesn't particularly object until Meadow begins spouting the 'I'll love you forever and ever and ever and ever' type lines, which are clearly going to set off some metaphorical alarm bells. Alfred is also aware that Meph is a vampire. Alfred does not exactly trust vampires and/or practicioners of magic. Meadow is completely intractable and has a seemingly programmed denial response. Alfred assumes foul play due to a combination of factors such as massive overprotectiveness, & you know the rest.

[Ves]

Usually? RM. Also possible - if not RM- for the large blue chap who sent OOC /tells informing me that I was being OOC if Alfred wasn't wetting himself because of threats from the particular Cirque chap and the Cirque as a whole. And though it is less recent - and likely over by this point - Fridan (and yes, I'm aware Akk is Fridan) was flinging (and succeeding) in flinging various celestial objects and claiming to be utterly unassailable. The hissy fit(s) came from the blue chap and - once - RM during a Kit-groping incident. It was after the Cirque threatened to murder Alfred in his sleep that I stopped bothering to interact with them on any level except throwing a greeting over, so further examples were stopped at the source...

Total failure to name 3 examples, and yet you slate ALL members, which also means you're calling me a god-modder, again. Way to go, you're really winning the crowd over here.

I don't particularly mind if people are aware of my opinions, and in fact I would appreciate it if they became so. Yet things would run far better if people, as opposed to forming idiotic little cliques and denying things, would at least openly discuss problems and attempt to find a conclusion. I attempted this beforehand - with Meadow-OOC - and of course the attempt was rejected out of hand. So it doesn't exactly leave many avenues, does it?

Openly discuss problems my ass, you spit your dummy out and then cry on the shoulder of anyone who will listen. Today it was Fridan on MSN, who's it going to be next time? As for people knowing your opinions, what makes you think people care? As you can probably tell, some people find them both offensive and annoying.

IC ought to have no bearing on OOC. And as for OOC - an insult is only an insult if it is taken in that way. Calling someone a 'thief' isn't generally an insult, and neither is calling someone - and accurately, in my opinion - a god-mode type. It's an accusation. In addition, there is perhaps an element of the aforementioned pot and kettle, considering your admitted existence of blacklists and such that do serve as insults.

IC and OOC are totally seperate, unfortunatly for you Ves and Meph don't like you IC, and both for valid reasons, and I don't like you OOC, also for valid reasons. The people you call God-mode types include myself, and since I know for damn sure that I'm not, it invalidates your accusation, and someone being wrongly accused would find such accusations insulting.

The same situation somewhat applies to a 'brushing off with a laugh' of telepathic abilities, as well.

This topic has been covered before, but once again I'll say it here, and since you seem to have trouble understanding I'll make it nice and clear for you....

YOU INVADED MEPH'S MIND WITHOUT MY PERMISSION, DESPITE ME TELLING YOU SEVERAL TIMES THAT I WOULD NOT ALLOW YOU TO MESS WITH HIS HEAD.

Seems to me that this is a perfect example of God-modding, so watch where you sling your accusations.

[Akkarin]

Alright, I'm stopping this now becuase it's clear that these arguments could go back and forth to no end.

Firstly, IC-Alfred has every right to suspect foul play. Given the situation I agree it makes sense. However, this seems to have lead to OOC critism of the entire concept that it may be a normal relationship. The realism argument doesn't stick when one is a vampire and the other is a mutant-magic girl thing (plus nictus in more recent times).

Being ingnored? Ves has explained well enough

I find it very unlikely OOC-Meadow is purposefully turning all her (I'm going to use her for quickness of typing) characters against Alfred. Wether this is a misunderstanding, difference in RP styles, paranoia, whatever, I'm not getting into it. It doesn't matter. Meadow has clearly stated this isn't happening, end of story as far as I'm concerned.

Cirque god modding? I have RPed with them on many occasions, more than Luke certainly, and have never seen anything that might be god-modding. Playing a powerful and indeed arrogant (confidant if you will) character is not god-modding. I've seen no occasion where they have dictated another players response without permission and this is, in my opinion, the deffinition of god-modding.
I also agree with Ves' point, when I see those things about my friends and myself, I find it quite insulting, wether that's the intention or not.

Perhaps I've been tried to hard to remain neutral and avoid conflict in the past, something I admit to. Now I feel I have to say that I agree with what Ves said

As one of the original members of the FA I've seen it grow from a small band of angst fueled guys and gals (most of whom were new to RP) into something great, all the members have matured both in RP style and ability. I will not watch one person come along and ruin what we built.

Ves, I have to say some of your comments have been fairly offensive and insulting. Understandbly considering your feelings but please try to keep a cool head.

Serveral times now you, Luke, have been the source of conflict and general trouble within the FA. I have recieved complaints from several sources (which I will not name). I can't help but feel that at this moment in time the group would be better of without you. However, I also think that if things could be sorted out the group would be all the better for having you.

I'm saying now, if people still feel the same in a months time, I'll have to ask you too leave. I honestly hope it doesn't come to that.

If anyone disagrees with this decision, please let it be known.

[Ves]

Ves, I have to say some of your comments have been fairly offensive and insulting. Understandbly considering your feelings but please try to keep a cool head.

If that's how I came across, then I'm sorry, but as I said, the FA are the main group of people that I've spoken to, lvl'd with and RP'd with since I first came to CoH, and as such I feel the need to make sure that things stay as they always have, light hearted, friendly and generally happy. The recent conflicts have disturbed that and as is clear from my reaction I wasn't happy about it.

[Luke]

@akk - seems reasonable to me.

[Rachis]

I'd be pleased if any negativity towards the cirque ceased. Many of them are rl friends to me and I know for a fact we do not godmod. As has been said - We are often arrogant and over confidant, but that's our nature.

I myself have read OOC messages about the Cirque. They arn't plesant and can often be offensive. It was uncalled for.

[Luke]

As for negativity towards the Cirque... well, considering these 'blacklists' and so on, you very much get what you give.

[Rachis]

I have no problem against you at all, Telepath. However, sending OOC messages to people that put them down and critisize their RP in a non constructive way is where I draw the line. You know what that is? It's a form of internet bullying and it's something I don't stand for. Get off your high horse or fuck off.

I usually like sorting arguments out in a friendly way, but lately i've delt with so much bad shit that I can't be arsed with people who want to personally attack my friends and people I care for.

[Kitmarch]

Okay, I hate to step into here, but can we do as 'Rin asked and end this?
Or at least take it to PMs.

[Shanghai Blue]

kitmarch said:

Okay, I hate to step into here, but can we do as 'Rin asked and end this?
Or at least take it to PMs.

Agreed, this isn't the place for this kind of discussion.